Both nations will form some type of confederation, based on shared interest in trade and culture

Re: India’s Independence and the Spiritual Destiny by Rich on Thu 27 Dec 2007 07:47 AM PST Profile Permanent Link Deshpande wrote: “I agree that Sri Aurobindo opinion would have changed with time…” Does it mean that he would have revised his stand about the removal of partition, that by whatever means it be it must go? That is the basic question.<

Well you or I can never know that because he has been gone 57 years now. We can only infer and draw our own interpretations based on our various intellectual and cultural backgrounds. My own opinion is that eventually both nations will form some type of confederation, based on shared interest in trade and culture.

Re: Bhutto Assassinated: N.Y. Times by Rich on Thu 27 Dec 2007 05:41 PM PST Profile Permanent Link An emergent confederation or free trade zone which balances China's hegemony is certainly not out of the question, if the region can "get its shit together" and so I got to say, no matter the rap there seems to be against Gandhi in some Sri Aurobindo circles, I think the first thing everyone must due, is stop exploding each other with hatred. It is only such an evolutionary future which I would consider progressive... cheers rich

Re: India’s Independence and the Spiritual Destiny by RY Deshpande on Tue 25 Dec 2007 04:49 AM PST Profile Permanent Link “I agree that Sri Aurobindo opinion would have changed with time…” Does it mean that he would have revised his stand about the removal of partition, that by whatever means it be it must go? That is the basic question. However, there are fundamentals also and there is also the aspect that the fundamentals should not be mixed up with the operational perspectives.

In terms of the specifics, it is totally beyond me to say if Sri Aurobindo would have changed his “opinion” in any particular situation or not. In fact, the question is: Does he hold opinions? His actions are in the play of the universal forces and what he would have done can be understood only in the knowledge of the workings of these universal forces, in their dynamics. As we do not have access to these workings, knowledge of the universal forces, to these dynamics, the best we can do is to go by our bests, bests discerned by our deepest and sincere-most perceptions. These perceptions will of course change from individual to individual and imposing one perception on another will amount to fanaticism. If there is religious fanaticism, there is also the rationalist fanaticism; the conflict between Reason and Faith is deep-rooted and is a fact of our present state of consciousness, our state of awareness. Actually, there are different types and grades of fanaticism, of every kind, small and too human as we are. But I also think we here at the sciy are enlightened enough to eschew from such impositions. As these postings are in the sciy fold, I take for granted the Aurobindonian outlook of things and it is in that outlook that we are holding discussions. Otherwise, for a general audience, it would entail writing a full-length book which, if necessary, should also be done. But I don’t think, at the moment, I’ve inclination to do anything of the sort. Anyone coming forward? It will be a welcome attempt. Let’s hope this happens. RYD

Re: India’s Independence and the Spiritual Destiny by Rich on Thu 27 Dec 2007 07:47 AM PST Profile Permanent Link Moreover RYD comments: However, there are fundamentals also and there is also the aspect that the fundamentals should not be mixed up with the operational perspectives. In terms of the specifics, it is totally beyond me to say if Sri Aurobindo would have changed his “opinion” in any particular situation or not. In fact, the question is: Does he hold opinions? His actions are in the play of the universal forces and what he would have done can be understood only in the knowledge of the workings of these universal forces, in their dynamics.<

Well if you choose to deify Sri Aurobindo the above perspective would logically follow. I personally do not and yes I think both he and Mother as human beings (however exalted they were) both reasoned and formed opinions which were subject to change depending on the passing of local and world events. I am however somewhat perplexed - and maybe you can explain this - how the followers of Sri Aurobindo and Mother can deify them and claim that integral yoga is not absolutely a Religion (with a capital R) rc

Re: India’s Independence and the Spiritual Destiny by RY Deshpande on Thu 27 Dec 2007 03:47 PM PST Profile Permanent Link Rich With regard to the “Pakistan imbroglio” let me quickly quote again Sri Aurobindo’s Independence Day Message:

“India today is free but she has not achieved unity… It is to be hoped that this settled fact [political division] will not be accepted as settled for ever… This must not be; the partition must go. Let us hope that that may come about naturally, by an increasing recognition of the necessity not only of peace and concord but of common action, by the practice of common action and the creation of means for that purpose… But by whatever means, in whatever way, the division must go; unity must and will be achieved…”

This statement of Sri Aurobindo is in the public domain; in fact the message was broadcast on the Radio. It’s a pity that no political leader of the country with the weight of his personality had at that time approached Sri Aurobindo asking for guidance to resolve the “imbroglio”, seeking his greater clarification about “by whatever means, in whatever way, the division must go.” That is why I had said that “there is no end to our stupidity.”

But presently my simple question is just the following: Do you think that, after sixty years, Sri Aurobindo would have revised his stand vis-à-vis the Partition? accepted it today as a “settled fact”? The rest is immaterial, inconsequential. RYD

Re: Harmonious Confederation by RY Deshpande on Fri 28 Dec 2007 05:36 AM PST Profile Permanent Link Rich You write:

…the idea of nation statehood as a European social construction does not exactly come to my mind when he says partition must go. I think he would have been pleased if a harmonious confederation in pursuit of similar regional, social, cultural interest could be achieved.

I think this observation of yours is very perceptive, quite positive, and I echo with the idea of “harmonious confederation”, the solution which was suggested by the Mother after 1971. And yet the question is: how is it going to be effected? I’ll add that Sri Aurobindo never considered India just a piece of land marked somewhere by geographical lines—she was Motherland for him. While her latitudes and longitudes belong to occult and psycho-spiritual dimensions, there is also something of them projected on the physical. Sri Aurobindo considered her as a mighty Shakti and hailed her so, she a great embodiment of spiritual Power in the cosmic working. Naturally, therefore, one cannot accept her as a fractured person. This is perhaps the basis which we can read in his Independence Day Message. RYD